Ep. 133 - Special Episode: Fewer Things Better (Featured on Hustle & Grace Podcast)

This episode shares my recent opportunity to appear on the Hustle & Grace podcast, hosted by the very awesome Hilary Sutton. She talks to people in different industries about their own work/life balance journeys. 

Listen in on our winding conversation that focused on the serendipity that plays through opportunities, human potential, neuroplasticity, finding quality over quantity, and chasing achievement at the cost of fulfillment.

Hope you enjoy this extended podcast!

Show Link: https://www.hilarysutton.com/podcast  

Transcript

Hello, friends - This week's episode is a share of a recent podcast where I had the honor of being a guest. Hilary Sutton is a writer, a speaker, an entrepreneur, a mom, and a podcast host.

And our conversation was so rich in the many questions she asked and the stories that we were able to tell together.

So in the next 25 minutes, you'll get to hear a winding road of our conversation that focused on the serendipity that plays through opportunities, the human potential, neuroplasticity, finding quality over quantity, and chasing achievement at the cost of fulfillment.

I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I did being part of it.

Hi, welcome to Hustle & Grace.

I'm your host, Hillary Sutton, a writer, entrepreneur, speaker, and mom.

We're here to explore how to create not only a flourishing career, but a flourishing life.

I'm so glad you're here.

Kristin Graham is an entrepreneur, coach, writer, and host of the Fewer Things Better podcast.

Don't you love that title?

Before building Unlock, Kristin spent two decades in corporate working for companies like Amazon and Expedia.

Kristin's years in academia and corporate, plus a relentless focus on research, led her to develop workshops, keynotes, and group learnings on how to rewire our internal hardware and update our mental software.

In today's extra digital times, we are all learning new and better ways to communicate, connect, and deliver results. Unlock helps you quickly start, upgrade, and amplify in key areas so you can live life on your terms.

Kristin, welcome to Hustle & Grace.

Oh my gosh, that's how I live my days, with Hustle & Grace. So this is perfect.

This is perfect.

This is like a match made in heaven.

I'm so glad our friend Michelle connected us.

Shout out to Michelle.

Shout out, Michelle! Hey, girl.

Let's just start with your work story.

So I feel like it's not super common for someone to go from 20 years in corporate America, traveling the world, being a part of giant teams, coaching thousands of employees of your company, to being out on your own, working in your home office, doing your own thing. So you spent so many years in higher ed and in that corporate world. What was the shift that made you want to make that big move to launch Unlock?

I love that it seems such a path. My quick answer is that it's only in looking back that it's accidentally strategic, that it's like, oh, well, of course that made sense. But no, at the time, I'm Gen X. I was following every checkbox that I was supposed to do.

And looking back, I think I was very likely an intrapreneur. So I had that creative leaning. I had the, well, I get bored easily, let me raise my hand and do something else.

But I just always thought we needed to do that within companies because that's what a good nerd does. But it was in doing all of those things that I felt that that energy, I think you kind of carry your effervescence with you.

And when I started seeing the world changed a lot in my 20 years, my very first big change was I went to journalism school and I was going to go to New York, work in magazines. That was going to be my big creative outlet. And 9/11 happened.

I had an offer in New York, Fifth Avenue, and the whole world changed. And same with COVID. So in that 20 years of swing, each time everything went upside down was when I found the courage because that's really what it is to say, well, if the world's upside down, maybe I can try something different too.

Absolutely. Did you end up going to New York? Like, did you end up living there or?

I didn't. I was based in Chicago at the time, and I was newly married, and my husband at the time was like, why would we go to New York when we live in Chicago? And there's a much longer answer to that.

But what was serendipitous, and I think that that's really the thread for most people's stories, is I had a friend who was dating a recruiter. I didn't even know a recruiter was an actual job back then. And he said, hey, listen, I always need to send people on interviews. Would you go to this company?

And I was like, yeah, sure. I mean, and it was a panel interview, which again, I didn't know was unusual. And I just spent the time answering their questions very, very authentically and in Kristin's free opinion, not knowing that there's kind of this corporate dance that you do.

And they came back and offered me, they said, well, here's a couple of jobs. Which ones do you want? And I was really, it was a 100-year-old Fortune 100 company at that time. So I kind of went from this creative landscape into a staid company. But I loved it because I got to play. I got to see how they did. They were public company. I got to see how they did all this stuff. And it was a fantastic curiosity exploration of what big business looked like. And it shaped what I was doing and what I didn't want to do.

So you've dived into this world of human potential, which I love. I'm an Enneagram 7. I'm always thinking about future possibilities. That's one reason it's hard for me to like, I'm inching closer to 40.

And so everything about my life no longer feels like it's ahead of me. It feels like some of it's behind me. So it's like a weird thing. But anyway, I love the concept of potential and possibility. So how did you get interested in that topic? Like, what sort of kicked that off for you?

I love that you're even seeing it in that way. Yesterday, my 19-year-old son sat down next to me, and he said, do I have to go to college? And a 19-year-old Kristin wouldn't have even thought to ask that question.

Thousand percent, yeah.

So your point and what you're saying there, what I love about having more experience is that you really start focusing on the quality. Like, are these worth my life calories, so to speak? So for me, I became a lot more bold as I went along.

I was chasing the brass ring, but what nobody tells you is that when you get it, you're not satisfied. I call it the 'happy when' fallacy.

When I make this much money, when I have this title, when I'm in this house, when I'm with a partner or a person. And that was a big shocker for the Gen Xers like me who were told, and I was first generation in a lot of things, first female to go to college, et cetera. And I believe it was Coco Chanel who had a great quote that said, everything and not enough.

So what happens when you check all those boxes, you ace those tests or however that looks to you, and you're like, why doesn't this feel what I thought it was going to be? That's when I lean towards, but what are the things that have always lit me up?

And I'm not saying that the titles and the money and the accoutrements weren't tasty. They just weren't fulfilling. And I think the challenge is, we have been conditioned, especially in Western cultures, to chase achievement and laud that instead of fulfillment. And so my whole path, when you talk about potential, is fulfillment.

But are you good?
But are you satiated?

And when I look at LinkedIn and social media and people are putting up all of their accolades, I'm thinking, but are you good?

Show me a messy day where I'm happy and in control if we ever get into money.
And I've been fortunate enough to work at public companies and become part of the tech millionaire set. Money is math, but wealth is choice. And entrepreneurism is choice. I've never been wealthier.

So thinking about wealth in terms of time and making your own decisions and fulfillment, talk more about what life balance means to you and how like your philosophy on that.

Well, I'll start by saying I am a single mother of two boys with a rescue dog. And I've been divorced for five years now, and I started my own business three years ago during COVID.

Just a few changes in the last five years.

Well, it's not like, hey, this is the perfect time when you definitely look around and think there is no perfect time. There's no perfect time to go back to school if that's what you want. There's no perfect time to have kids or not have kids.

So what I've realized, though, to answer that question, and I think a lot of people can resonate with this regardless of what industry or circumstances you're in.
When I wake up now and I look at my day, like even this right now, I'm excited about what's on my schedule instead of, okay, so at three o'clock, maybe I'll be able to work on a few things. I just got to get through drop off or these meetings. And they used to talk about what the Sunday feelings of trying to go back.

Sunday scares, right?

Yeah, right?

But I think we've all looked at our calendar and like, or so excited when a meeting, an event, or a social thing cancels, you're like, oh, thank God. And it's like that's the majority, that's 80% of our days is things that aren't necessarily, the necessary evils, right?

You and I were talking about earlier, why I need to go to that meeting, I don't want to miss that, I gotta be important. I was addicted to being important when I was in corporate, because that's what I thought was the recipe, but it was very, very empty.

And so long before I became an entrepreneur, I took a year off, I took a sabbatical, and that's a separate conversation we can have too, but it went from stripping away a title and a paycheck, and finding out who the heck I really was, having gone through that experience, I knew I could do, become an entrepreneur.

But back to your question, when I wake up and look at a calendar, and some days, oh please, this was yesterday, I had nothing on my calendar, and I've never been more delighted, never been more delighted to have a day.

Doesn't mean I didn't do anything all day. I just wasn't beholden to doing something at a certain time. And that has been one of the most liberating things. Or when I have a conversation like this, or I get to go to a conference, it's because I genuinely want to be there, not because that's where I'm supposed to be or slotted to be. And that is the most delicious thing I have found in the last three years.

I believe it. It must be something to transition identity, because especially if you took a lot of pride in and at one point you thought like, well, this is how you have a happy, successful life, is you get these accolades and you get these titles and you make it to your 10-year anniversary with the company and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, at what point did you decide, oh, my identity is not in my title, my value is in who I am as a person and not just who I am as a part of like this company or this role or whatever?

Well, it's going to sound a little pat to say it this way, but sometimes it takes getting the title or getting the whatever slot that you thought success was before you realize that it's actually tastes great, less filling.

So when I say that, sometimes we're like, oh, it must be nice to get to be at that level. Sure, of course, that's what I meant. Some of it did have a lot of wonderful aspects to it, but it wasn't fulfilling at the end of the day.

And there's a loneliness that comes from success that people rarely talk about, because you're not supposed to complain about what other people want.

And we see this all the time. Look at how quickly we'll tear down celebrities and the schadenfreude of anything. And then when you're a woman and you're one of the few, you better not complain, because then it becomes, who do you think you are? So there is that loneliness. And when you find that recognition and others.

So now I love being an evangelist of messy, happy, because it's not something that we're conditioned or rewarded to look for.

And I'm staying on the gender thing for a moment, but it's also with other marginalized groups of, we can only be successful when everybody else is successful. I had a lot of people be like, but you're divorced, shouldn't you just stay and be steady and be there for your kids? And I'm like, I am being there for my kids.

But it's that there's still a double standard and unfair advantage to what is expected of success when certain people get it. And that's a conversation I would love to break some barriers on.

So I love that one part of your work is helping people rewire our internal hardware and update our mental software. What does that mean?

It's going to mean different things to different people, but my framing on that, and I'm a big research nerd. So I've read the books, listened to the things, looked at the articles, and I do a lot around productivity, not to get people to do more, but to do less.

And in that is to understand where are we naturally set. So I have a whole component on chronobiology, which isn't unique to me, that's been around for a long time, but it's where are you naturally more wired to, when are you actually hungry, versus you have a break between meetings?

When would you like to go for a walk or exercise?
When would you naturally wake up if it wasn't your phone waking you up?
That's what I mean by our hardware. That's just who we are. Night owls versus morning birds, etc.

So part of that is understanding your core components, but then our software is our learnings, our habits, and sometimes that outdated mental tape that's running in the back. If we have to shut down our phones and put on new software updates, we need to do it to our brains too. And that includes turning down the volume of all the old bullshit that we've been telling ourselves that we can and can't do.

Absolutely. I'm just curious, you know, you've been a working mom for, I think you just said, is your oldest 19?

No, my oldest is 21. Thank you for bringing that up. Now I might just start, yeah, having some feelings.

That just means that you're a pro at this working mom thing. How did becoming a parent, and I know it was like a minute ago, but how did parenting impact your approach to work or just your philosophy on just how you approached work and life?

Well, and it wasn't just a minute ago because that 21-year-old was over at my house yesterday taking groceries out of my fridge. So I don't know when we graduate from that.

But actually, and it goes back to what you were just saying about hardware and software, one of the core components of the work that I've seen and has really resonated is the concept of neuroplasticity. And that's the brain's own ability to adapt to new changes and circumstances.

I will answer your question. But I mean that look at COVID. We all had to, as a universe, had to pivot and adjust to a new world order. It was certainly capable. Look at all the pharmaceuticals that came together to create a vaccine. Like when we have a collective universal goal, things can be accomplished. And that is also the neuroplasticity of our brains, but also our habits, getting used to antiseptic and masks and all the other stuff.

So there is so much that we are capable of that we don't know necessarily is within our skill set. So becoming a parent is certainly an exercise or caregiver in any capacity. And so for me, by that point, I had had some career success. I'd had a graduate degree by that point. So I was like, okay, I check those boxes.

And I fell in love with this little human and being a parent. And it really upended all of these goals that I was looking for. But it made me maniacally focused on purpose. Like, if I'm going to stay late for a meeting, that means 45 minutes less than I'm going to have with this human. It better be worth it.

And I became a much bolder advocate of, do you actually need me there? I remember when I first worked dot-coms. I was supporting the CEO of Expedia at the time. I was new, and they scheduled a meeting. And I said to him in the decline, that's my son's birthday - I'm not coming in to work that day.

And I was like, who am I? I'm new to the space.

And he was like, great, happy birthday to your son. And it was such a thing of getting out of the old conditioning of be there, give it all.

And again, I'm going to use a gender term, but that good girl or that good guy heads down, work through it.

People are going to notice you and pat you on the head. That pat is not coming. And if it does, it's not going to be on the timeline that you want. So I became a lot more bold to your question about how parenting changed, of being like, I'm not missing Halloween. I'm not doing that. And if that's a challenge for you, then that's a mutual challenge. So let's find out if this is not a fit.

I was on maternity leave with my first child and my boss at the time, who was a female, called me at home to check it in, and she said, so how long does this thing last? And I was like, the kid or maternity leave? Because one's longer than the other.

But I'll tell you, Hillary, I created pressure. And I went back from maternity leave two weeks early to show that I was a team player. And I don't prescribe to regret a lot. But I gave away two weeks. And if I ran into that woman on the street, I doubt she'd even recognize me. And of course, my son doesn't remember that. But I do.

And so that becomes, it's those trade-offs that we make, that we don't feel good about, and we often carry in secret, that really led me later to say, what if we kept keeping our shame and our regrets and our goals secret?

And what if we just were messy out loud? And that's my new space of like, we can actually change. We can change our brains, we can change our careers.

I just had a girlfriend text me this morning, and she said, I think I'm about to get made redundant.

I was like, well, let's go. Let's make room for your next. And things are supposed to change, and they suck when they do. That's not a technical term.

But what if we said, okay, let's make room in our closet, and let's find something better. If not this, then something better. And that's, I'm a hope dealer.

I love that. So you help people learn how to do fewer things better. What are a couple of questions that our listeners today could just ask themselves to think about how they could do fewer things better?

Yeah. And it's my daily mantra as well. It comes from a place of recognition, not some big certificate I learned somewhere.

They always say, we teach what we need to learn. So I'm a practitioner of it. And my comment to a lot of folks is, I nerd so you don't have to. Let me tell you what has worked and put it on your menu and see what you respond to and see what you resist. Because that's how you're going to get something tailored to you.

To your point, though, the reason I talk a lot about Fewer Things Better is when I come to groups and individuals, they're always saying, how can I get it done?

How can I get through my to-do list? And I'm like, what if we didn't? What if we did that quality of it? Because it's simply not possible. It's simply not possible to get through everything.

And then I get back into the neuroscience that I've studied a lot around in terms of our brain craves dopamine. In our extended days with less sleep, constant blue light and technology, probably calorie deficiency or ill-advised calories, we're not feeding our hardware in any sense of it, hydration, sleep, food, at all.

And then we put the social conditioning on top of it. So Fewer Things Better, our brain is constantly craving dopamine. It's a natural need for your body. It's not an optional, I'll get to reward myself on Saturday.

So when your brain gets overwhelmed, which it does, it's going to seek, if you ever find yourself being distracted, and all of a sudden, I always joke that my kitchen's never cleaner than when I have an email I need to send.

If you find yourself distracted, it's because your brain's like, I'm overwhelmed by email, but I'm going to wash this coffee cup because I can complete it. When you start recognizing the ingrained habits that you're doing, the distractions in disguise, you can say, this is what's going on with me?

So one of the things I say a lot, in addition to chronobiology, about learning how to protect your sacred time, I talk a lot about the two-minute rule, which again, I didn't create. That's a concept from David Allen. But it's saying, what's something that can be done in two minutes? And I love making lists. I don't know a working parent out there that doesn't have lists somewhere. Maybe it's a fancy app. Maybe it's on colored paper or whatever it is.

But it's saying, before you transfer something from one list to another, or make a post-it that you put over here, or send yourself a text message or a voicemail, however you all are organizing your time, if it can be done in less than two minutes, do it now.

You get a double whammy of that serotonin and dopamine, and it creates momentum, mental momentum that says, I accomplished that. I returned that text message. I put those dishes away, whatever it is, and then you're like, now I can do the next thing. 

We will always charge our technology, but we forget to charge our energy.

And a two-minute rule just helps us do something, anything to get the momentum going, instead of it's nine o'clock at night, and you're feeling mediocre. You're like, how was I busy all day, and yet I feel like I got nothing done.

We need short bursts. We need brain snacks. Instead of trying to run the whole marathon in a day, we need to just get through the first Gatorade station.

Absolutely. Kristin, this has been fantastic. Where can people connect with you online?

Please come find me. I nerd out all the time. I talk a lot on LinkedIn, so I'm always posting things there. I have a weekly podcast called Fewer Things Better. As you mentioned, thank you for that.

And then just come find me at Kristin@UnlocktheBrain.com. Let's do that old-fashioned thing where we just talk to each other. I'm always having pop-up workshops for free.

I very much believe in ideating out loud, and I do also have a small group cohorts of Fewer Things Better if you just want to learn with a group. And this fall, I'm launching my first digital classes on-demand Fewer Things Better, three-minute videos that you can just watch at your own pace. So all that online.

But Hillary, thank you for this amazing conversation and the space that you hold for people to have grace with their hustle.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Hustle & Grace.